13. End-of-Year Giving Strategies with a Professional Advisor

Join us on this episode focusing on end-of-year giving strategies! Nicole Donelson and special guest David Torre, Director of Wealth Planning at Seacoast Wealth Management, dive into the world of end-of-year giving as David shares his extensive experience in wealth planning, estate management, and charitable giving. Discover the nuances of charitable gift planning, the importance of aligning assets with giving vehicles, and inspiration for creative solutions for your clients.

Whether you're a professional advisor or a client, this episode offers valuable insights to elevate your giving strategy.

Please note: The opinions and views expressed in this episode are those of the guests and do not necessarily reflect or represent those of any associated company. The content on this episode should not be considered legal or tax advice.

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As our region’s community foundation, Central Florida Foundation serves as a launchpad for high-impact philanthropy. Championing the collective power of head, heart and dollar, we coordinate the commitment and investment of philanthropists, nonprofits, and community partners to target today’s most critical challenges and those on the horizon to truly transform our community. The Foundation also offers expert giving advice, a personalized approach to managing charitable funds, and the capacity to convene collaboration across sectors. Learn more at cffound.org.

Transcript

00:00:05 Laurie Crocker

Welcome to Central Florida Foundation's First You Talk podcast. Here, you'll gain a better understanding of society's toughest issues at the end of each episode, we'll summarize the main points and offer deeper dive options. If something piqued your interest. So ready to demystify a complex issue and up your knowledge.

00:00:24 Laurie Crocker

Time. Let's get started.

00:00:27 Laurie Crocker

Thanks for listening to this episode of the First You Talk podcast. Just a note to say that the opinions and views expressed in this episode are those of the guests and do not necessarily reflect or represent those of any associated company. The content on this episode should not be considered legal or tax advice. Thanks for listening, and here's the episode.

00:00:48 Nicole Donelson

This is Nicole Donelson at the Central Florida Foundation and I am so excited to be joined today by David Torre and we're going to be talking a little bit about end of year giving. But David, I'd love for you to introduce yourself to everyone.

00:01:04 David Torre

Well, thank you, Nicole. It's a pleasure to be with you today. And I'm a big fan of the foundation, so I'm happy to spend some time and discuss this very important topic that we're going to discuss today. I'm David Torre. I'm the Director of Wealth Planning for Seacoast Wealth Management based here in Winter

00:01:20 David Torre

Park and I'm also a licensed attorney in the state of Florida. I used to practice in the field of estates and trusts and probate, and also did a stint with Rollins College as their Director of Planned Giving. So part of the fundraising team of Rollins going around the country working with donors.

00:01:41 David Torre

On incorporating the college and their estate plan.

00:01:45 David Torre

Doing gifts of artwork, establishing endowment scholarships, all that kind of stuff. So I've kind of been on different seats around the same table, but hopefully I bring all that to bear in working with my clients and some of your donors, possibly. So thank you so much.

00:02:02 Nicole Donelson

Yeah, you've, I, I feel like you've lived about 3 careers.

00:02:06 Nicole Donelson

And yet you are not old enough to have lived so many lives.

00:02:08 David Torre

Yes.

00:02:10 David Torre

Yes, I I'm. I'm actually aging in dog years, so it's it's getting there. But yeah, so I've, I've I've been around, I've seen a lot of different things from a lot of different angles and I hopefully have synthesized that to some degree in working with clients, my clients, your donors and vice versa.

00:02:26 David Torre

That kind of thing.

00:02:27 David Torre

And yeah, so it's it's, it's fun. Never a dull.

00:02:30 Nicole Donelson

Moment. Yeah. Well, so, David, you and I met when you were on the board of the Central Florida Foundation and have since been roped into getting and continue being involved even though you're no longer on the board. I had approached you about maybe about a year and a half.

00:02:36

Cool.

00:02:37

Correct.

00:02:49 Nicole Donelson

Two years ago to try and see if we could find a way to bring a group of advisors around the table and just have some more productive conversations and be able to kind of create a more collaborative space. And I thought.

00:03:03 Nicole Donelson

Who might actually be willing to come on this journey with me? And you've been so great.

00:03:09 Nicole Donelson

Through that process.

00:03:11 David Torre

Who? Who would be available, who had nothing better to do? Is that really what the and the?

00:03:13 Nicole Donelson

Yeah, yeah.

00:03:14 Nicole Donelson

Sucker, I'm not sure.

00:03:16 David Torre

Yeah, the roping in part was very uncomfortable as well. No, it was. It's been great. We started the Professional Advisory Council. So yes, backing up,

00:03:23 David Torre

I was term limited off of the Foundation board because as a good governance aspect of serving on the board is knowing when to leave and being told, you know. Thanks. Thanks so much for your service and move on please. And so it was great to get the professional advisors group together and I think it's a.

00:03:33 Nicole Donelson

Yeah, it's time to say goodbye. Yeah, it's been fun.

00:03:44 David Torre

I think it's a great group of of local professionals from all different disciplines where we trade notes we.

00:03:48 Nicole Donelson

Yes.

00:03:50 David Torre

The.

00:03:51 David Torre

Tackle new topics you know, new changes to the laws and what have you and just kind of.

00:03:56 David Torre

Get together and and talk about case studies and things. So I think it's been great and hopefully our our core group is feeling the same way. I think it's I think we have good momentum.

00:04:05 Nicole Donelson

I hope so. We'll we'll share this episode with them and get some feedback. So one question. You know, I think a topic that I see kind of come up and sometimes gets asked is.

00:04:09 David Torre

Absolutely.

00:04:18 Nicole Donelson

Is sort of that chicken and egg conversation. So is it the client that is driving the charitable giving component or is it the advisor? You know, I've talked to some advisors and they say, well, I don't, you know, I don't really bring it up unless you know my client does and it's something that I know is important to them.

00:04:40 Nicole Donelson

Whereas sometimes you know clients are thinking. I wish my advisor would kind of bridge this. What do you, you know, what have you kind of seen in your practice? What do you hear?

00:04:48 Nicole Donelson

There.

00:04:49 David Torre

Yeah, absolutely. And and it comes up a lot. So I've made it a point over the years working with clients to make sure that I know I checked the box on my end that I bring it up at some point, usually early on in the engagement. So I've worked in as a practicing attorney. I've worked with donors on behalf of the college, and I've worked with wealthy families.

00:05:10 David Torre

All across the country and I try to bring it up at some point just to.

00:05:15 David Torre

Find out are they charitably minded at all, and then it's a question of sort of degree. Do we just sort of want to stay at this level or do we really want to kind of ramp this thing up or maybe we're coming up to a retirement or coming up to a sale of a business, but there is some hesitation in the community of the visor community. I think there's a feeling of.

00:05:36 David Torre

Maybe I'm not as well informed or well equipped to carry the conversation, so I'll try to, you know, just kind.

00:05:42 David Torre

Of.

00:05:42 David Torre

Push it to the side right and I think what, what a lot of the survey data that's been coming out over the years.

00:05:43 Nicole Donelson

Maybe avoid that?

00:05:50 David Torre

You know, there's various surveys of wealthy people, clients of different institutions where they survey their own customers, so to speak, and over and over again it comes back that people that are terribly minded, which isn't everybody but the segment that is it's very, very important to them and they want their advisory team.

00:06:11 David Torre

Whoever's on their team to respond to that demand, so to speak, right, so so I think.

00:06:18 David Torre

The inaction almost can be a disservice for the advisor by saying, you know, I'm going to kind of keep at arm's length. We're in the head of the client, sitting across from them. They're thinking, gosh, I wish this person would ask me, or I wish I could ask them some questions or figure out the best way to do this. So there's there's a little bit of that push and pull. I I generally lean on.

00:06:34 Nicole Donelson

Yeah.

00:06:38 David Torre

1.

00:06:39 David Torre

Let's let's just bring it up. And the worst thing that could happen is say, you know, we're not very interested and we move on and I just say, you know, it's my job to look around corners for you, Mr. Mrs. client. And here I did. And and now let's now we know the answer.

00:06:41

MMM.

00:06:53 Nicole Donelson

Is that giving away anything about Mr. and Mrs. client? Any any anonymity there? OK.

00:06:58 David Torre

No, no, no, no, no, that's not their real names. Yeah, there's a little. Yeah, it's a different pronunciation, but.

00:06:59 Laurie Crocker

OK, OK, we're OK.

00:07:06 David Torre

So and then there's. Then there's the sort of the levels of giving, right. And so some folks are used to sort of an annual giving, you know, at a certain level, right they they give to their alma mater or they give to the kid down the street in the neighborhood is raising money for band or whatever. And they feel like, you know, they stay at that level, they're comfortable.

00:07:25 David Torre

What happens a lot, though, especially as people accumulate more assets and more wealth, or they have a major wealth event themselves, like a sale of a business or what have you.

00:07:34 David Torre

Sometimes their sights start being raised a bit in the terms of their giving or in terms of the causes they want to support.

00:07:41 David Torre

In that area, like kind of in that zone is where I like to.

00:07:46 David Torre

Work with clients, right? Because it's it's getting out of that sort of checkbook. Philanthropy or that annual kind of rinse and repeat philanthropy. And now we're getting into what I usually try to call as charitable gift planning, where it's getting more into.

00:07:46

MHM.

00:07:58 Nicole Donelson

Yeah.

00:08:00 David Torre

To assets, vehicles giving vehicles and also thinking about other causes and things you might want to do either during your lifetime or after, it's just kind of a raising of the sophistication or raising of the planning that goes into that.

00:08:17 Nicole Donelson

I think that's good and that can be a little overwhelming for a lot of people too, especially if they've never had any exposure to that. It's their first time learning and I think there's a little bit of that component, especially when you're working as an advisor and you're kind of having to deal with the technicalities, right?

00:08:36 Nicole Donelson

So you're trying to.

00:08:37 Nicole Donelson

In the most tax advantage way, but also balance it with what is your client trying to accomplish and so you know the the piece of how you accomplish it, what you use, what you set up as a structure, but also the piece of the why, right, what's driving it.

00:08:58 Nicole Donelson

Values. What's the ultimate outcome?

00:09:00 Nicole Donelson

And I know that conversation and that piece can still sometimes be a little, you know, a little challenging. What do you what do you do to balance that and kind of bring someone along, especially if this is really new for them, but they're ready to kind of elevate that, that level of planning?

00:09:16 David Torre

It's it's a great question. It's at the heart.

00:09:18 David Torre

Of.

00:09:19 David Torre

What this topic and just kind of working with clients generally and and you working with donors as well is I often tell clients, especially if we're we're in that stage where they don't have a lot of experiences you know kind of a just enough planning like just enough to get started right there's no.

00:09:37 David Torre

Hard and fast Rule book is this is the right way and this is the wrong way right? So trying to get across to them. This is year one experimentation mode, right? So let's try some things out and we're going to just we're not going to make mistakes, we're going to get educated, right. So let's think about what we want to do. We'll try a couple of things out and.

00:09:57 David Torre

We'll see how we are this time next year, right? If we have the luxury of that time.

00:10:01 David Torre

Another thing I like to think about.

00:10:03 David Torre

That is.

00:10:04 David Torre

You know what, I sometimes call the upstream part of the planning the the putting the right asset in the right vehicle with the right timeline. So a lot of attention, and rightly so, a lot of attention gets placed, you know, in the industry and just sort of in the media on the grant making and the impact that happens at the end, right, money.

00:10:24 David Torre

Came out of some vehicle. It went to a great cause and now it look what it did, right? Look all the good it did in the community and the smiling people or what have you. Not nearly as much attention in my opinion my.

00:10:36 David Torre

It goes to how did those how did that capital, how did those assets get into those vehicles way back, right? How did, where did we start from? That's where that charitable gift planning of that blending, I think of the heart and the head together. So a lot of times clients will say I want to do something big, I want to.

00:10:55 David Torre

I want to give X amount. I want to do something and put something in a vehicle for kids and grandkids or what have you.

00:11:03 David Torre

And then it's people like me, like our job to say, OK, let's look at your balance.

00:11:07 David Torre

Sheet. Let's really scrutinize each and every type of asset because some assets might be better for charitable giving and some assets might not be. And so it's not just $100,000 to us to charity, it's well, this asset's worth about 100,000 and maybe we give that versus cash or something else.

00:11:15

Mm-hmm.

00:11:27 Nicole Donelson

Yeah.

00:11:27 David Torre

So doing that sort of analysis and then we say, OK, well, which vehicle right, we got to be kind of agnostic, I think to the vehicle.

00:11:35 David Torre

Some vehicles are very easy to get, stand up and get rid of, and some are more difficult to get. Stand up and get rid of, so there's a little bit of a training wheels there, but but making sure that we we convey to them that we're going to do this in the most efficient manner and a lot of times if we do our job right and things line up.

00:11:50 Nicole Donelson

MMM.

00:11:54 David Torre

We end up with maybe more net assets in those vehicles to do the good work, right, because we've we've identified.

00:11:58

Mm-hmm.

00:12:01 David Torre

Different pools of capital that could go in there, it's it's not a I had a professor in law school used to always yell at us about. This isn't a fast food experience. It's not a drive through window experience, right? So don't expect it to be, you know, one hour phone call on a Tuesday and we're going to, we're going to sew. All right. It's it's a little bit of a rinse and repeat. It's a little bit of trial and error and it's a little bit of that.

00:12:17 Nicole Donelson

Figure it.

00:12:18 Nicole Donelson

Out.

00:12:23 David Torre

Sort of right asset in the right vehicle mix, but that's also what makes it fun. So that's what.

00:12:29 David Torre

I enjoy. That's good.

00:12:30 Nicole Donelson

Yeah. Do you do you experience?

00:12:33 Nicole Donelson

A lot of, I mean, do you have the opportunity for collaborative work? I mean, do you find that to be kind of a a critical part or something that's important?

00:12:41 David Torre

Through that process, absolutely. I mean, I think there's collaborative amongst the advisory team and some of those folks might be working with me in house and many others are outside right outside attorney, outside CPA and those folks are critical, especially the CPA has to.

00:12:47

Mm-hmm.

00:12:53

MHM.

00:12:59 David Torre

Firmly be on board with whatever the strategy is, and then obviously gift giving right and just giving gifts. Generally there's a giver and a receiver, and so you have to make sure that whoever the receiver might be is also somewhat make sure they're qualified and they're a good recipient and all those great things, and that they want. They want the help or need the help, but don't always assume that, right.

00:13:06 Nicole Donelson

Sure.

00:13:10 Nicole Donelson

It's.

00:13:11 Nicole Donelson

On board.

00:13:20 David Torre

But it gets into too with the selection of the vehicle, right? So certain vehicles can do certain things right? So if you're going with a donor advised fund.

00:13:24

Hmm.

00:13:30 David Torre

They can really only grant out to public charities that are, you know, certain type of animal at the zoo, maybe a different charitable giving vehicle has more leeway like a foundation or something else, right. So you also have to think through what is our end state hoping to be Mr. and Mrs. client going back. Do you want to do?

00:13:50 David Torre

Ultimately, do you want to do scholarships, or do you want to build the new wing on the museum? Or do you want to do medical research or whatever it might be?

00:14:00 David Torre

That has to also come into the calculus as well, so it's it's. It's an interesting kind of puzzle to solve, yeah.

00:14:06 Nicole Donelson

Yeah, I think I've seen too sometimes paralysis in the decision making because it can be overwhelming. What if I make the, you know, wrong decision or I don't know. I think I want to do this now, but what if I change my mind later, you know, fear about.

00:14:27 Nicole Donelson

That it needs to be one specific thing, this one particular way you talked about is setting up a foundation. Well, once I have a private foundation, that's the only thing I can use and it must look like this or not feeling like you can pivot along the way. And so even in in, in especially for.

00:14:47 Nicole Donelson

Individuals that I've seen who have come into wealth that they didn't anticipate being something that was feasible or possible for them, it's they're they're the wealth builders and they're experiencing sizable philanthropy that they never knew that they would have the opportunity to.

00:15:04 Nicole Donelson

To make decisions about and also answering the questions of, OK, you know how much? How much am I going to plan to give to my kids or grandkids? And then I'm a charitable person, so I want to have it impact the community. But what does that look like? And and maybe even some element of procrastination?

00:15:07 David Torre

Right.

00:15:25 Nicole Donelson

Because those decisions can feel a little hard or scary, how you know whether someone's listening to this and they're an advisor, or they're actually the client side.

00:15:25

M.

00:15:35

M.

00:15:36 Nicole Donelson

You know the the how any words of wisdom, of kind of moving through that process.

00:15:41 David Torre

Yeah, it it's very common. And the first thing I if when we're if we're going to get down this conversation and start down this road with the client. One thing I like to get across is, you know, philanthropy is a choice. OK, no one's telling you. You have to do any of this. OK. So not to say that it's always got to be fun. And it's always got to be.

00:15:54 Nicole Donelson

MHM.

00:16:01 David Torre

You know, bed of roses. It's not that.

00:16:03 David Torre

It's not life, but this is a choice, right? You're you're doing this for some reason. Maybe. Maybe you just think that's what other people expect of you or whatever. But let's narrow it down to why are we doing this? Why are we doing this? We don't have to do this. We can do it at a much smaller scale to start out like training wheels. So we don't feel like we.

00:16:09 Nicole Donelson

Yeah.

00:16:25 David Torre

Made a mistake, quote UN quote or wasted money quote UN quote.

00:16:28 David Torre

So if you have some time and you have some some space to think about it, we can always just start.

00:16:35 Nicole Donelson

Mm-hmm.

00:16:35 David Torre

A very modest level and just say let's just do something and if we hate it like I said before, we'll just collapse it all away and go on our about our life and we never have to think about it again. Chances are we're going to like it. It's or at least some part of it. And we want to keep going. Yeah, that doesn't necessarily have to be be true. So First off, it's.

00:16:54 David Torre

You know.

00:16:55 David Torre

Why are we doing this? Why then would we want to do it? And then you start getting into where you know, where do we give? Is that a cause? Is that an area of interest? Is it a specific charitable entity that we really are close to and trust?

00:16:57

MHM.

00:17:09 David Torre

I think in the industry, you know the kind of the, the donor philanthropy industry, there's a there's a real focus on.

00:17:18 David Torre

And you know, impact in the Community and this money will do this much good or this much more money will do this much more good. And there's all this sort of again that end result pressure. And I think my two cents, just a hunch. I think some of that reflects back on the individual donors where they feel like I'm not sophisticated enough.

00:17:30

MHM.

00:17:38

Hmm.

00:17:38 David Torre

Or I don't want to be a fool, made a fool or I don't want to make a mistake and it's it's not to say that it's all about.

00:17:46 David Torre

Them, but it kind of, you know, that's the way we are, right. We have domain over our assets and we can decide where they go. And so I don't want to, I don't want to Fast forward the process with the client to show them, oh, you could do this much good and this much money would do that much more. I think they're that can cause a little paralysis.

00:18:06 Nicole Donelson

Yeah.

00:18:06 David Torre

Just than that, right because.

00:18:09 David Torre

Using a Warren Buffett or John D Rockefeller or someone like that as an example is great on one hand, because there's a lot of creativity and but I think it can also inhibit your average person who just like to your point, just came into some wealth that they never thought they would and that identity crisis, I think can cause some of that.

00:18:22 Nicole Donelson

Yes.

00:18:30 David Torre

Hesitation as well. So I I I try to, you know use examples with folks, try to find peers, you know out in the community that might be good kind of role models if you will.

00:18:32 Nicole Donelson

Yeah.

00:18:42 David Torre

But it it's it's it's a fine line. It's a fine line between, you know, you must do this. You can do this. You should do this, right. There's a lot of those things can be very loaded. So it's it's always a bit of a you know a a psychology game I think sometimes.

00:18:50 Nicole Donelson

Yes.

00:18:57 Nicole Donelson

Yeah, I I think that.

00:19:00 Nicole Donelson

How people experience and feel about money as a whole spills over into how they experience their charitable giving. I've seen people who have shared stories that they grew up with very little, very poor on the receiving end, and now they have.

00:19:04 David Torre

Right, right.

00:19:09 David Torre

Yes.

00:19:18 Nicole Donelson

The opportunity to give back and they they know the value of those services and they want to continue to support it. And I've met that same type of individual who has then amassed a lot of wealth and is very hesitant to give it away because they're afraid that they won't have have it later on. And so it's so interesting to me to see just how much the.

00:19:24

Hmm.

00:19:35 David Torre

Exactly.

00:19:40 Nicole Donelson

Psychology comes into play, and even when someone says, you know, oh, I want to do XYZ because my friend is doing that.

00:19:49 Nicole Donelson

Well, you have very different lives. You you don't know how you're at. You know, if you have the same assets, then what you want to try and accomplish, and so how individualized all of these conversations and approaches really are at the level of planning as well as kind of what that ultimate outcome may look like.

00:20:08 David Torre

One thing too, and it's great point. And another thing I think people have some trouble with. I think it's just human nature of projecting out into the future of. I know I'm worth X today dollars in today's dollars in my mind.

00:20:24 David Torre

But the I it's very hard for folks to wrap their head around. This is going to grow or has a very good shot to grow to why in 30 or 40 years or maybe I'm going to give my kids.

00:20:35 David Torre

$1,000,000 each in today's dollars, but I don't realize that when those kids are 65 years old, it's going to be whatever, right? 12 million, 50 million, whatever it is. And so that that correlates as well of just that kind of thinking through the future.

00:20:43 Nicole Donelson

Yes.

00:20:51 David Torre

The scarcity mindset to your point of like I need this much.

00:20:55 David Torre

But it's hard to really sink your teeth into. Like, really, what do you need to maintain the rest of your life? And what are these dollars going to grow to down the road? I mean, you can only do.

00:21:06 David Torre

So much with a dollar, right, you can spend it. You can save it, you can invest it, or you can give it away. And so it's it's. Yeah, it's it's a. It's an interesting concept. There's a lot out there on.

00:21:08 Nicole Donelson

Right.

00:21:18 David Torre

Sort of. The psychology of a donor. I think. You know I'm not a psychologist or psychiatrist, and I don't pretend to be on TV, but I think it's important that we as advisors and and and your role is represent the foundation to kind of meet people where they are and and show them sort of incrementally what reality can be as opposed to maybe.

00:21:19

Hmm.

00:21:38 David Torre

The fast forwarding to some very, very sophisticated fully formed, you know, 20 years down the road plan that might be a little bit daunting and overwhelming and all that great stuff. So yeah.

00:21:48 Nicole Donelson

Yes.

00:21:50 Nicole Donelson

Yeah, I get the vigil of those pools that have the very incremental incline as you walk in to the shallow end and then into the deep end. And it's that sort.

00:22:03 Nicole Donelson

Sort of slow move, especially if you didn't have any sort of example for you growing up that there's kind of a legacy build and here in Central Florida, I think we have a lot of newbies to the table because we're just kind of a a younger growing community.

00:22:18 David Torre

It's true, you vacation a much nicer hotels than me. I I.

00:22:22 David Torre

Don't know those pools.

00:22:23 David Torre

I know what you're talking about, but I I haven't seen. I haven't seen the real one. Yeah, OK. OK, good, good.

00:22:25 Nicole Donelson

Well, I've seen them. I've seen them in the movies. So yeah. Yeah. OK. So we're approaching that.

00:22:32 Nicole Donelson

Of the year and you know a lot of times, this is the time that people are thinking about being charitable, giving back.

00:22:40 Nicole Donelson

And even I know that the tax piece isn't necessarily the number one driver, but it is important for a lot of people. It's certainly, as we've had some tax law changes too, we've seen that it's not, it's it's not been the number one driver, but I think a lot of times people equate the end of year with.

00:23:00 Nicole Donelson

Giving back, it's the kind of holiday.

00:23:02 Nicole Donelson

For it, it's the end of fiscal year for a lot of nonprofits, and so people are kind of trying to think and working with their advisors on what? What do I need to do. And so I wanted to just take a chance to kind of talk about how, you know, what, what kind of guidance can we give for people who are thinking about.

00:23:23 Nicole Donelson

Either working with their clients or thinking about that end of year giving so.

00:23:29 Nicole Donelson

Top of the list.

00:23:31 Nicole Donelson

What? What are some, you know, typical scenarios that you may see?

00:23:35 Nicole Donelson

At the end of the year that you're kind of having a conversation.

00:23:38 David Torre

About yeah, no, this is this is the time of year for giving. I think there's some huge percentage of gifts that are made between Thanksgiving and New Year's Eve, right? Every year. So absolutely.

00:23:50 David Torre

And really, it's hopefully by this point in the year folks have had at least some input from their tax advisor, their CPA about what, how the year is looking for them tax wise, right, how much you know, income right, they were starting to close the books, right. They were winding down on on fourth quarter.

00:24:09 David Torre

And so there's certain scenarios right where we have people with.

00:24:12 David Torre

Have had high income years. For whatever reason, we have people that have stocks, publicly traded stocks that have really appreciated in value over the last year and they're the gains are on paper, right. They haven't realized them, but they're certainly there. We have folks, a lot of folks that have sold a business or had some kind of transaction with their closely held business throughout the year.

00:24:33 David Torre

And then of course, we have folks, you know, needing to do RMD's if they're above the the required minimum distribution age out of their IRA's, their retirement accounts, right. So that's typically kind of the four very common broad stroke.

00:24:46 David Torre

Groups, as we're going into the year. The other one I would say is you know for folks that have a private foundation or their their trustee of a foundation, they also have a deadline to get the 5% minimum, right. So all this is kind of flowing into this, you know year end button up the the the last.

00:24:54

Hmm.

00:24:58 Nicole Donelson

5%.

00:25:07 David Torre

Thing this day or before we we break for the New Year's. So for the folks that are.

00:25:12 David Torre

You know, high income years just had great years income wise really with the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017. The TCJA which is still in effect to the end of 2025. The the one of the main factors for individual taxation was the increase of the standard deduction. So the standard deduction essentially doubled.

00:25:33 David Torre

And it created a lot fewer itemized.

00:25:37 David Torre

Deduction, folks. Right. So it went down to single digits of taxpayers. That itemized, which is all well and good. But the charitable deduction fell into that itemized bucket, so to speak. So to get in from standard deduction land and to itemized deduction land, you have to hurdle over the.

00:25:39 Nicole Donelson

Yes.

00:25:57 David Torre

Standard deduction, which this year is 15,000.

00:26:02 David Torre

Dollars for one person and $30,000 for a married couple. So essentially, if you want to get any kind of charitable deduction that you can really, you know, use on your end of year taxes, you're giving an excess of that 30,000 to get into the itemized realm. So sometimes that's called bunch giving or.

00:26:23 David Torre

Kind of like I know this year was great. I don't think next year or the year after is going to be as good, but for whatever reason I had a great year this year. I might Fast forward.

00:26:33 David Torre

Three years of giving into one big gift right now and do it before the end of December, and I can either do that outright to my favorite charity, or I can do it in something like a donor advised fund and just park the money there. Get it done before the end of the year, get my deduction in full, and then next year and the year after. Maybe I don't.

00:26:37 Nicole Donelson

Yeah.

00:26:53 David Torre

Do any charitable giving because I'm now going back to the standard deduction side of things, right? That's that's a relatively common kind of year to year planning. You know, toggles, if you will. So depending on what your situation is.

00:26:58 Nicole Donelson

Yes.

00:27:07 Nicole Donelson

We see that a fair amount.

00:27:08 David Torre

Yeah, it it, it comes up.

00:27:11 David Torre

Part and parcel to that is the stock market, right? So we've had some really great years overall and some folks have had great individual portfolio results, right? And so there might be an opportunity where, hey, I have this stock stock XYZ publicly traded stock that has really, really gone through the roof.

00:27:14 Nicole Donelson

Yes.

00:27:31 David Torre

If if I sold it out of My Portfolio and and liquidated into cash, I would get hit with the capital gains tax on all that gain that I I received and that's not a very fun activity. So maybe instead I just donate those shares directly from My Portfolio account.

00:27:39

Mm-hmm.

00:27:51 David Torre

To my favorite charity, either outright again or into a donor advised fund or some other charitable giving vehicle.

00:27:59 David Torre

The reason why we like that a lot couple reasons.

00:28:03 David Torre

The charitable recipient isn't a taxpayer like you and me, so they're not gonna pay that capital gains tax, right? So you receive the face value of the shares of stock which are publicly traded. So they're almost like cash, right? You can liquidate them any day the markets open. So the the share value on the data.

00:28:07 Laurie Crocker

Correct.

00:28:23 David Torre

Gift is what it is the face.

00:28:25 David Torre

You and the charity can liquidate it, turn it to cash very quickly and the capital gains tax.

00:28:32 David Torre

Not paid, right? It's not due because the charity doesn't have to pay at the recipient. So it's very, you know, you get your deduction, you get your annual gift, so to speak, to the charity. And you're using an asset that potentially would have not great taxation for you individually. And getting it out. The other reason we use, we look at that.

00:28:49 Nicole Donelson

Absolutely.

00:28:52 David Torre

Too, and I'm not.

00:28:53 David Torre

The portfolio manager on the team but some.

00:28:55 David Torre

Claims it can help with rebalancing a portfolio again if if if you're rebalancing right, your tech stocks have gone really, really high through the roof and you want to kind of shave off a little bit of it and maybe buy at today's value, well, you can kind of donate the most appreciated shares to a charity and then buy new shares of that same stock with.

00:29:17 David Torre

Cash that you have in.

00:29:18 David Torre

Account. So it's a nice kind of release valve, possibly to rebalance, yeah.

00:29:24 Nicole Donelson

Yeah, I think that's a good approach because a lot of times people, when they think about giving immediately think cash in their wallet and that is not always the most tax advantage approach and certainly it it almost is is as though it creates a win win for both the charity and.

00:29:30 David Torre

Right, right.

00:29:43 Nicole Donelson

Donor. And so that's such an an awesome opportunity in the situation where they may choose to use stock, that they're taking an approach of using a tool like a donor advice fund.

00:29:57 Nicole Donelson

That can also sometimes open the opportunity for giving to some nonprofits that aren't able to accept gifts of stock, so that's the best asset for the donor to give. It can get liquidated by the institution, let's say Community Foundation, through that fund, and then they can grant those dollars out to those nonprofits that wouldn't typically be able to.

00:30:20 Nicole Donelson

Accept that gift.

00:30:21 David Torre

Excellent point, yes. And and most donors, you know, very consistent, you know, dedicated annual givers.

00:30:32 David Torre

Once they learn of the stock option, if they have portfolios that you know hopefully have appreciated overtime generally really like the option as opposed to writing checks because they really you know there's just a different mindset of I'm just I'm I'm sending a few shares out of My Portfolio that really only exist on a on my statement versus actually seeing a check.

00:30:53 David Torre

Take cash out of my checking account, right? There's just a different field of that. And when they learn about, you know, the potential tax benefits, they they find it very, very attractive. And I've had, I've had donors that give actually a little bit more in dollar value because they see.

00:30:55 Nicole Donelson

Yes.

00:31:07 David Torre

That you know that $10,000 gift is really, you know, saving me X percentage of tax. So maybe I'll give 12 or maybe I'll give 13 because I can see the value creation there. And to your point is is excellent too. Not everybody can.

00:31:22 David Torre

Have the wherewithal to receive stock, and so having the the good offices of the foundation, there is an excellent Ave.

00:31:29 Nicole Donelson

You mentioned clients that are maybe thinking about selling a business and or have sold a business, right? There's a couple different approaches with that. Certainly I think for those who own a business and have ever gone through a sale.

00:31:47 Nicole Donelson

Know that sometimes it can be rapid pace. At the end, everything comes at the end. But there are kind of either pre sales strategies, post sales strategies and sometimes those are happening at the end of the year. Can you talk a little bit about that?

00:32:02 David Torre

Absolutely yes. It's it's one of those things where it it does, it gets to be a take a life of its own, right. Any business owner, especially a lot of business owners we we do have serial entrepreneurs. But for most part this is their one.

00:32:18 David Torre

Time, right? This is their one example, right? They started a business. They built it up. They're, you know, whatever age they are ready to retire or kind of, you know, sell and get out of the business. And this is their one example of selling a business and it's it's a huge undertaking. A lot of times, right. And oftentimes the the buyer on the other side of the table.

00:32:37 David Torre

Maybe is a very seasoned acquisition entity that does this once a month or has done it multiple times, right? So there's a little bit of that asymmetry there as well.

00:32:48 David Torre

But for those folks that are business owners and are charitably minded, we generally do to your point have sort of that dichotomy between what we call pre sale planning and post sale or or just using the proceeds from the sale right once it's turned into cash. You know what, what are we going to do with that on the pre sale side?

00:33:08 David Torre

That is really kind of can be your most bang for your buck, if you will tax.

00:33:13 David Torre

Wise, But it takes some runway to get that and it's it's a little more sophistication and you you really have to do some of that leg work ahead in terms of strategizing around your charitable giving, all the things we just talked about, right, think about your goals, your vehicles, your long range planning of what you want to do, but it's a way to.

00:33:16 Nicole Donelson

A little more little, more sophistication.

00:33:35 David Torre

Take some shares of your closely held business. So this is a business that's not traded on the stock market. It's just, you know Mr. Client owns 100% of this LLC or whatever.

00:33:44 David Torre

Is.

00:33:45 David Torre

And he wants to.

00:33:47 David Torre

Take some of those shares and say I don't know, 10% of the company and he knows he wants to do that for take that value and put it towards some kind of charitable activity in the future. Very commonly what you might do is you might literally gift those shares from you as the business owner to.

00:34:04 David Torre

Who? A charitable vehicle that you create or to a donor advised funded Community Foundation or directly to a charity of your choosing. Whatever you know, path you want to go on, but you're doing that way in advance, or at least in advance of the sale of the business to a third party. Right? So there's there's a bit of a.

00:34:23 Laurie Crocker

Yes.

00:34:24 David Torre

A Goldilocks window there of you know you don't want it too far ahead, right. We don't want to do this 20 years out.

00:34:30 David Torre

But you also can't really do it. The day before the business sells either, right? So there's a bit of a a judgment call there and on the runway, but so then the transaction is the, you know, the shares go to whatever vehicle or charity that, that we the donor picks they hold on to them, hopefully not too far in the future, the business sells to a third party.

00:34:34 Nicole Donelson

Correct.

00:34:52 David Torre

And those shares get sold along with whatever shares the owner retained, and but all that value, all the proceeds now are captured inside that charitable vehicle or with the charity they select. So it's very it can be very for the right client with the right, you know, stars aligned, it can be incredibly impactful.

00:35:12 David Torre

For them, dealing with what is generally a very highly appreciated asset, right? It's a.

00:35:18 David Torre

Most people's business basis in their business is very low and this thing is growing like crazy. And now you're selling it to a third party and the value spread is humongous. Yes. And so if you can redirect at least some of that, get it in your donor advised fund or get it with your favorite charity or put it in a foundation or whatever. Ave. they want to go down.

00:35:21 Nicole Donelson

Right.

00:35:39 David Torre

It can be very, very powerful. There's lots of, you know, quote UN quote red tape. You got to get a qualified appraisal. You have to have you know, every everyone on on standby on your advisory team to make this happen. But it it can be incredibly, incredibly impactful. The other side of that is we have a lot of clients.

00:35:58 David Torre

That post sale, right, they had the closing, they kept 100% of their business and they sold it to.

00:36:05 David Torre

Private equity or competitor or whoever, right and now they've netted whatever amount it is from the transaction and that year is a crucial year because now they have this huge income cap cap gain year. And so right now to your point earlier about this time of year.

00:36:19 Nicole Donelson

Very high income year. Uh-huh.

00:36:25 David Torre

These are the folks that are. It's a front burner issue because whatever charitable giving they're going to do now, they have to get it done in the same tax year as when they realize the gain. So don't advise. Funds are kind of the go to, but there's other vehicles you can.

00:36:41 David Torre

You.

00:36:42 David Torre

And it's just a matter of kind of right sizing. How much does the person want to actually commit to charity or to charitable giving?

00:36:50 David Torre

Versus, you know, their maximum deduction based on their income that year. So this to, you know, working with the CPA on the outside crucial, right, because they're the one kind of eyeing the the how this transaction flowed, what's going to be the impact to them tax wise and getting that number right that they're comfortable with. That is also the most.

00:37:10 David Torre

That official and either deploying that again into.

00:37:13 David Torre

To donor advise fund outright to charity, to another vehicle if they're choosing it really can be anything. But the time is of the.

00:37:23 David Torre

Essence for sure.

00:37:24 Nicole Donelson

So.

00:37:25 Nicole Donelson

And.

00:37:26 Nicole Donelson

Something that has become very, very popular as a giving tool is using your IRA RMD, which we would call this a QCD, which is a qualified charitable distribution. And I know there's an acronym Soup, right? IRA required minimum distribution.

00:37:42

Yes.

00:37:45 Nicole Donelson

And can you kind of give just the basics of what that is around it and a QCD because that's something to you that can be really helpful for people to accomplish their goals?

00:37:57 David Torre

Absolutely, yeah. The the acronyms get a little overwhelming and they are what they are. But the, the, the crux of it is, is there's, you know, the individual retirement account, the IRA, right. And we're really talking mostly about the pre tax IRA, right? So you know, you work your whole career, you're contributing to.

00:38:17 David Torre

Either an IRA or 401K throughout your working life all most of that money is going in pre tax, right? Coming out your paycheck and going in pre tax.

00:38:25 David Torre

And then you get to the end of your career. You retire, and that money needs to start coming out, right? So you can't just stay in there for the end of time, right? It needs to come out and it needs to be taxed in, in the eyes of of the IRS. And so at what at some point the age limit gets hit by the by the.

00:38:45 David Torre

The client and they turn on what's called the required minimum distribution. So the IRS says at such and such an age you must start taking withdraw.

00:38:54 David Torre

Rules based on this calculation, your life expectancy and whatnot each and every year, or you're going to get penalized, right? So they've been ticking this year, this age up every year. Right now, it's for most people, it's going to be about 73 years old. So we have clients, you know, they have.

00:39:09 Nicole Donelson

Yes.

00:39:12 David Torre

Good income, maybe they have pensions, they have other assets they keep delaying and delaying. They don't want to start tapping these funds, they don't need them. They don't want the extra income. But there is a hard and fast deadline that says you must start taking at this age. Well, the the Secure Act, which is a piece of legislation that.

00:39:33 David Torre

Let's take in different iterations over the last few years, but one thing that came out of that is what we call, to your point, the qualified charitable distribution, the QCD. So for folks.

00:39:45 David Torre

Age 70 1/2, which is a little weird but.

00:39:49 David Torre

That used to be the RMD age and they they bumped it up, but they didn't bump up the QCD age. Why? I don't know. But so at 70 1/2 you're eligible, but your RMD might not start till 73. But you can, you know, whatever. You can start when you want there after 70.

00:39:54 Nicole Donelson

Right.

00:40:07 David Torre

One of the safety valves that came out is you can redirect that RMD amount up to. I think it's 105,000 this year and it's going to tick up for inflation. I think it be 108,000 next year.

00:40:19 David Torre

Directly from your IRA to the charity of your choice.

00:40:23 Nicole Donelson

And that's key.

00:40:24 David Torre

And that's key. It's got to go from the institution that holds your IRA. You can't take cash, you can't get a check and go deliver it, you send it direct from your account to the charity.

00:40:31 Nicole Donelson

Yes.

00:40:36 David Torre

And up to that limit, 105,000 for the year and it can go to any number of charities you want as long as the total limit is below.

00:40:45 David Torre

And that can count against your RMD requirement.

00:40:49 David Torre

It's really nice option for folks that don't want the RMD, but now they have to take it.

00:40:55 David Torre

You can do this strategy whether you do the standard deduction or the itemized deduction that we mentioned earlier, so it's available to anyone over that age limit.

00:41:03 Nicole Donelson

Because you're right, cause they won't get a deduction for that gift. You don't get a charitable deduction, but you do bypass taking that income and having to pay income tax on it.

00:41:12 David Torre

That's exactly right. So you don't get the deduction, but you don't take the.

00:41:15 David Torre

Income so. So for some folks it's because they like it because the income, the extra income would have put them in a higher tax bracket or it would have raised their Medicare premium which is tied to your income from the year before. And so it's a way to do your annual giving at a fairly substantial amount, right? 100,000 doesn't have to be 100,000.

00:41:34 Nicole Donelson

That's no, it could be 1000, 2000, yeah.

00:41:35 David Torre

But.

00:41:36 David Torre

It could, right?

00:41:38 David Torre

But it's a it's a nice safety release valve or whatever the phrase is to each and every year, depending on what the client situation is to have an Ave. to do.

00:41:47 David Torre

That and so we have clients, you know, their RMB might be $63,250 or whatever it is and they give away 63,000 to the charity direct from their IRA.

00:41:59 David Torre

The CPA makes a note of it on the tax return and we're fine, right? We've we've satisfied the RMD very, very popular vehicle or I guess option with that vehicle, right? The IRA has also been kind of the go to, for leaving your IRA to charity when you're gone.

00:42:19 David Torre

Right, so remember.

00:42:21 David Torre

For the pretax dollars, they've never been taxed, and if you pass away and you still have pre tax dollars in your IRA and say you leave it to a son or daughter, they are going to get the distributions, but they're going to pay the tax, right? Somewhere along the line, someone's going to get.

00:42:37 Nicole Donelson

Someone's paying the tax.

00:42:38 David Torre

The dollars are going to come out and they're going to be taxed because they've never been taxed before, so it's been it's been for the many years we've told clients, you know, if the number is right, if the amount is what you're comfortable.

00:42:48 David Torre

With.

00:42:49 David Torre

Naming a charity as your beneficiary of the IRA can be a very tax wise move, because again, the charity is not going to have to pay income tax so you can name, you know, favorite charity or your or whatever. You know, option you want to choose, say, 100% of my IRA goes there.

00:43:08 David Torre

And I can leave my children other assets that aren't, you know, don't have those same tax implications. So we've always had that. We've had the QCD RMD option.

00:43:20 David Torre

Sometimes called the charitable IRA, rollover was what we used.

00:43:23

Mm-hmm.

00:43:24 David Torre

Call it so that. Then that's great too for the right folks that are in that situation. And then the IRA also has one other option, which is a relatively new option which allows for a one time gift to fund a charitable major trust or a charitable gift annuity. It's a $50,000 per person.

00:43:45 David Torre

Limit that might change in the future. We don't know. This is a brand new. I think it came out.

00:43:49 David Torre

In 23, that's right.

00:43:51 Nicole Donelson

Yeah, I think it's been about a year or two.

00:43:53 David Torre

Not as popular. Kind of a little more, you know, red tape around it or or restrictions, but it's there and it kind.

00:44:02 David Torre

You have.

00:44:03 David Torre

You know, strengthens the trend of the IRA as a multifaceted, charitable giving vehicle for folks, especially older folks, you know, looking to tap those resources. So it's it's, it's interesting. It's something we take a look at. Sometimes clients don't really think about it that way, but there's a lot of options out there.

00:44:23 Nicole Donelson

Probably good to note too with the qualified charitable distribution, those dollars cannot go into a donor advised fund, right? So but it's a question. So the donor advised fund comes up a lot, is that that's something that people want to give to you. So something that I think you and I have had past conversations about.

00:44:34 David Torre

Yes, yes.

00:44:38 David Torre

Yes.

00:44:41 Nicole Donelson

Is this is also a really great way for people to start some of their plans that they had for maybe what they were going to do with their estate planning, establish an endowment it, get something started, a legacy plan where they can sort of see it now in life because I don't know if you see this as well.

00:44:59

MHM.

00:45:02 Nicole Donelson

That there is a little bit more discussion.

00:45:04 Nicole Donelson

Of of individuals that are saying I want to do a little more giving in life than at death, this may be an option that someone could consider if they were thinking about maybe they had already been working with their local college or their local Community Foundation and they had plans that they wanted to set something up. That would be that.

00:45:25 Nicole Donelson

Sort of legacy gift. This could be a good way for them to think about using some different assets to get that going.

00:45:32 David Torre

Absolutely. And the the, the IRA's.

00:45:34 David Torre

Are.

00:45:35 David Torre

Often a very large asset on a client's.

00:45:38 David Torre

Balance sheet right after after their primary home. You know people have been making contributions to these accounts for 30-40 years and getting matching funds and hopefully the investments have done well. So it can be a large pool of assets for a lot of people and yeah, positioning that to your point.

00:45:58 David Torre

It can be very much in the in the mix. Yeah, it's, it's it's an interesting. So this you're tying it all together to what we started this conversation, right getting away from just that.

00:46:10 David Torre

Sort of. I have some cash in my account and I'm going to write a check and now I'm done with doing my charitable giving. Now we've kind of Fast forward the conversation and kind of raised it in sophistication level deep in the analysis. So now we're looking at a different asset on the balance sheet that has value, but also has.

00:46:30 David Torre

Complications or different tax treatments, different ways it can flow out, you know, to kids or grandkids and possibly redirecting all or some of that towards towards those.

00:46:40 David Torre

Rules.

00:46:42 David Torre

It also brings up a when you mentioned it jog my memory. Talking about the kids and the grandkids is sometimes we position it or we we talk with our clients about.

00:46:53 David Torre

You know, what are we going to leave our kids and grandkids, right? What is the full picture of their inheritance going to be? Right. Almost like a portfolio. You know, you're going, you know, Junior's going to get some cash. He's going to get a stock portfolio. Some of that might be in a trust for him. He's going to get a piece of real estate whatever. Right. It's all this stuff.

00:47:13 David Torre

That's all gonna come to them in different form.

00:47:15 David Torre

Forms and sometimes, if you think about the philanthropy or the charitable giving side as part of that inheritance portfolio, meaning you're not going to, this isn't money. You can do whatever you want with their son or daughter, but it's part of our legacy. It's part of the overall umbrella of assets that we're transmitting to you in different forms.

00:47:23 Nicole Donelson

Great point.

00:47:35 David Torre

But it's there for a different purpose. It's there to do something else as opposed to support your lifestyle or pay for the grandkids, education, or whatever other worthy goal there is. So sometimes we can think about things a little differently than.

00:47:48 David Torre

And you know the classic. Oh, I would have gotten X amount, but Grandma carved off a half and gave it to the animal shelter, gave it to the hospital or whatever. And I, you know, I missed out on that or whatever that feeling is sometimes if we structure it right, we fund it appropriately. Everyone feels good about it. It can be sort of a collection of things that.

00:48:00 Nicole Donelson

Right.

00:48:08 David Torre

A lot of times.

00:48:10 David Torre

The giver, the parents or grandparents feel a lot of satisfaction and the receiver, the kids or grandkids feel a lot of satisfaction because they realize ohh grandma grandpa did it this way for a reason and I can kind of make it my own and carry on with that.

00:48:25 David Torre

While they're here, and certainly while after they're gone and it's just there's a different sort of spin to that or different kind of angle of looking at it. So anyway a little off topic, but that that when you mentioned that it drew drew my memory to.

00:48:37 Nicole Donelson

That as well, I think that's a good point and and maybe that's where we can kind of close the search on it because it's more than just.

00:48:45 Nicole Donelson

Again, the the asset, the tax, you know, figuring out the technicalities, it really is about the bigger picture and creating an opportunity for getting family involved or thinking about a reflection point especially for individuals that are hitting certain milestones.

00:49:04 Nicole Donelson

For their.

00:49:05 Nicole Donelson

Thinking differently about, you know, a look back on what I've done, how did I get here? What's that sort of stamp that I want to leave? How can I pull the people in that I care about to be?

00:49:15 Nicole Donelson

A.

00:49:15 Nicole Donelson

Part of this and do that.

00:49:16 David Torre

Right.

00:49:18 Nicole Donelson

Have those conversations and do that now in life in a way that they feel a part of it and.

00:49:26 Nicole Donelson

That creates that buy in and get to be able to be another way that they're passing down some of the values and and create conversation around family stories history, understanding that component. And I think that's such a philanthropy creates that really great opportunity.

00:49:36 David Torre

Great.

00:49:43 Nicole Donelson

To be able to have some of those conversations.

00:49:46 David Torre

I I totally agree, and the only addendum I would make to that is and I and I bring this up. I I teach plan giving courses with Rollins College of the Edyth Bush Institute. And I tell them, you know, plan giving this and it's kind of the the rubric that all this kind of falls under my mind right that that sort of heart and head blending.

00:50:07 David Torre

Sophisticated.

00:50:08 David Torre

Giving is a lot of times these gifts or these vehicles that a client creates and funds might be their real only lasting memory, that they existed right not to get too, you know.

00:50:21 Nicole Donelson

Little dark? OK, sure. Yes. Huh.

00:50:21 Nicole Donelson

Spiritual or yeah.

00:50:23 David Torre

Dark is another way to put it, but their their legacy is so wrapped up in that endowment.

00:50:28 David Torre

Or in that endowed scholarship at their alma mater or the building that their name is on, or whatever it might be, and that the the looking at it that way, it can seem a little strange, but it's actually kind of very poignant and can be very powerful.

00:50:28 Nicole Donelson

Right.

00:50:45 David Torre

To think that this is how I'm gonna be remembered, right. This action I took this thing I got going off the ground and funded it and did put all this effort into it is my legacy. And yes, maybe I have kids or grandkids that can look to that or be a part of that. Maybe I don't. But just thinking about, you know, how personal this can be and how important it can be.

00:50:48 Nicole Donelson

Yes.

00:51:07 David Torre

And not just leaving it as, oh, I want to save 5% more on taxes or I want, you know, it's it can be a whole lot more if it's done the right way. So I I totally agree.

00:51:17 Nicole Donelson

You know, maybe our Part 2 will be on endowment and plan giving and it'll be a real nail biter. I know.

00:51:24 Nicole Donelson

The I know that.

00:51:25 Nicole Donelson

Our audience is going to want to hear more from you.

00:51:28 David Torre

Maybe maybe I, maybe, I don't know. I'm if they're listening. The sound of my voice and they're probably having the same terrible reaction I'm having. Listen to my own.

00:51:36 David Torre

Voice. So maybe.

00:51:38 David Torre

Maybe not. Maybe it'll be typed out.

00:51:41 Nicole Donelson

Well, David?

00:51:43 Nicole Donelson

This was such a great conversation. Thank you for sharing all of your insights and expertise. You are you are frequently and I'm happy to admit this to the world. You are frequently one of my speed dial numbers. Do people even know what speed dial is anymore? OK, that's that's dating myself.

00:51:59 David Torre

I I don't think I. I think the Youngs don't know what that is anymore. No they.

00:52:02 David Torre

Don't know. Yeah.

00:52:03 Nicole Donelson

OK. But you are a go to because you are you, you are a unique anomaly out there having?

00:52:11 Nicole Donelson

And on an estate planning lawyer working in the plan, giving space with a nonprofit now in wealth advising, and you're also a chartered advisor in philanthropy.

00:52:24 David Torre

Yes, as are.

00:52:25 Nicole Donelson

You I am.

00:52:27 Nicole Donelson

A little plug and and and so I will say you bring a really great wealth of knowledge and insight from so many different perspectives. So thank you for being able to share some of that today. We really appreciate it.

00:52:41 David Torre

Well, thank you very much and I appreciate those kind words and it.

00:52:44 David Torre

Was a.

00:52:44 David Torre

Sure. Thanks for having me.

00:52:48 Mark Brewer

Thank you for listening to the podcast. First You Talk as an engaged listener of this show. We encourage you to check out our podcast website at cffound.org/podcast to learn more about the complex issue. There you'll find more.

00:53:06 Mark Brewer

On text to the voices that you've heard today, links to any supporting materials mentioned during the episode and resources to help you explore additional perspectives to draw a fuller picture of the issue at hand.

00:53:18 Mark Brewer

Through curiosity and collaboration, we can all make our community an even better place to call home.